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Thread: No Man's Sky - The Unsearchable Thread

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    AUF Full Member - Dual Post-Millenium Man (2000+) krunt0xen's Avatar
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    Default No Man's Sky - The Unsearchable Thread

    This is getting some of the best reaction coming out of E3. A pure, procedurally generated, Sci-Fi universe. You can explore planets, solar systems, space stations, literally anything you see. Each player starts on their own, new, uniquely generated world, and sets out from there. Both on foot, and in your ship, there is combat, exploration, upgrading to be done etc.



    The scale & ambition of the project is mind blowing, especially given it's being created by the same 4 man indie studio, Hello Games, that created Joe Danger. This is an interview with one of the Hello Games blokes that answers quite a few questions.



    And just because I know stiffy has questions about procedural generation, I thought this tidbit might be appreciated.

    @thomasABoyt: .@hellogames has a bot that records gifs of their procedurally-generated worlds so they can see, at scale, how good they look. Brilliant.
    Personally, I can't wait to play this.

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    I am really excited about this game. To me gaming is a gateway to exploration of world's/universes I would not normally be able to experience. The abiltity to see a planet you like and then go on the ground and explore it is very cool. I hope this gives the goods.

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    AUF Full Member - Almost To The Point Of No Return (9000+) Kacoul-'s Avatar
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    The most exciting game out of E3 for me, can not wait.
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    It reminds me of the video game Joaquin Phoenix was playing in 'Her'. This has a huge potential, is the technology ready?. I agree with Stiffy on procedural generation vs hand-crafted but I don't think you have a choice in the type of game they are trying to create. Its too big to hand-craft everything. It really boggles the mind. First you have to generate a planet, then a distant mountain range, then a mountain, then a cave and so on

    They will have to make sure there are rules in place when generating a new planet so things seem realistic if not at least plausible. How big and what mass? That will effect the surface gravity felt + how high mountains can be. What's its rotation? = day/night cycle and weather/seasons. How far away from the nearest sun? Will it be a sunny or icy planet. Anyway maybe too much detail..

    Next how do you share with your friends if every new game will be different. Quit out from your world and join theirs for a play session? On the web site it says "Choose whether to share your discoveries with other players. They’re exploring the same vast universe in parallel; perhaps you’ll make your mark on their worlds as well as your own."

    Anyway, a crazy difficult task ahead for Hello Games if they want to deliver.

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    AUF Full Member - GUN PRON PRONE (3000+) Scout___AUS's Avatar
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    Heres another 2 videos




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    Quote Originally Posted by krunt0xen View Post
    And just because I know stiffy has questions about procedural generation, I thought this tidbit might be appreciated.
    Well they're not going to come out and say "we've developed a procedural system that generates absolutely crap content that will bore you to tears."

    Let me tell you how it usually goes with games featuring random/procedural content generation: the developer says "we've developed a new and exciting system that overcomes the traditional problems inherent in procedural design, and is able to generate content that's even more fun than anything a human could ever dream up, and simultaneously ensures exceptional variety in the player experience and makes every game a truly unique experience." And then the game is released, and the procedural content turns out to be shit. Every. Single. Time.

    Maybe Hello will finally deliver, but with their dev pedigree (as good as Joe Danger was) I wouldn't call them worldbeaters at this stage. They're a long shot here. Sometimes you'll get a dev like Rocksteady or NetherRealm who produce a gem out of nowhere, but it's exceedingly rare in game development in my experience.

    I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, just think people need to temper their expectations a little. This game reminds me of Brink: stunning in theory, but with many significant challenges to overcome if it's to deliver at release.


    Quote Originally Posted by rb---1 View Post
    I am really excited about this game. To me gaming is a gateway to exploration of world's/universes I would not normally be able to experience. The abiltity to see a planet you like and then go on the ground and explore it is very cool. I hope this gives the goods.
    There was a game called Epic in 1992 that did that (space/planetary atmosphere gameplay transitions). In that game it didn't actually turn out to be all that fun and was more of a gimmick. The guys who made Epic went on to form Evolution Studios actually (the guys who did the Motorstorm games, and who are now working on Driveclub).



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    AUF Full Member - GUN PRON PRONE (3000+) Scout___AUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStiffBreeze View Post
    ... And then the game is released, and the procedural content turns out to be shit. Every. Single. Time. ...
    But do they have a choice? Shit even if they did a single earth sized planet You'd never be able to hand-craft it (unless your a god then it'd take you 6 days + 1 day for beta testing)

    What games have used procedural content generation in the past? I wouldn't mind doing some investigating. I only know of minecraft

    EDIT: Never mind - I found a couple of good articles
    Last edited by Scout___AUS; 12-06-2014 at 11:23 AM.

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    AUF Leader AStiffBreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout___AUS View Post
    But do they have a choice? Shit even if they did a single earth sized planet You'd never be able to hand-craft it (unless your a god then it'd take you 6 days + 1 day for beta testing)

    What games have used procedural content generation in the past? I wouldn't mind doing some investigating. I only know of minecraft
    In terms of choice, their choice is to adjust scope. It's the reason why games don't normally feature huge scope (because quality generally suffers) and developers eschew it in favour of more tightly controlled experiences. Automation in asset creation is to be expected in certain circumstances, generally it comes with supervision/oversight though. When people talk about procedurally generated content they're generally referring to stuff that is never vetted.

    Maybe I'm overly cynical here, it's just I've gotten my hopes up and been utterly let down a few times too many.

    In terms of games that use procedurally generated content wikipedia will show you the famous ones, most if them from a time when there wasn't much detail being provided in terms of game content, but beyond that it's very common in tech demos and proof of concept stuff. The indie/underground community has been experimenting with it for a long time because of course it removes one of the biggest barriers that small teams (like Hello) face, which is the sheer amount of work (and hence headcount) necessary for asset creation.


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    AUF Full Member - Warbird Firehead (750+) rb---1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStiffBreeze View Post
    There was a game called Epic in 1992 that did that (space/planetary atmosphere gameplay transitions). In that game it didn't actually turn out to be all that fun and was more of a gimmick. The guys who made Epic went on to form Evolution Studios actually (the guys who did the Motorstorm games, and who are now working on Driveclub).
    I never played Epic, but maybe with a bit more technical grunt, this could be less gimmick and more fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by AStiffBreeze View Post
    In terms of choice, their choice is to adjust scope. It's the reason why games don't normally feature huge scope (because quality generally suffers) and developers eschew it in favour of more tightly controlled experiences. Automation in asset creation is to be expected in certain circumstances, generally it comes with supervision/oversight though. When people talk about procedurally generated content they're generally referring to stuff that is never vetted.

    Maybe I'm overly cynical here, it's just I've gotten my hopes up and been utterly let down a few times too many.

    In terms of games that use procedurally generated content wikipedia will show you the famous ones, most if them from a time when there wasn't much detail being provided in terms of game content, but beyond that it's very common in tech demos and proof of concept stuff. The indie/underground community has been experimenting with it for a long time because of course it removes one of the biggest barriers that small teams (like Hello) face, which is the sheer amount of work (and hence headcount) necessary for asset creation.

    I might do some more research in to procedurally generated content, and I admit I haven't researched anything yet but I wonder if this game will use procedure generating to create unique universes on-the-fly like Minecraft does for each player or they will use this technique to generate one finite universe that will be shared between everyone, with the ability for the developer to then go into that universe during development to make sure it is tweaked and interesting. Is that even possible?

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    Couple of good articles. at least one of the 4 on the team 'hate' procedural generation. A good thing really as i makes them well aware of the issue that have occurred with it.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ng-no-mans-sky

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...al-generation/

    It looks like they aim to release 1 finite universe
    Sean: We were thinking about how to talk to people about it and Hazel said this thing at lunch the other day. What people don’t realise generally is that we actually have different universes on different machines. When it will release, it will be the one that we will release, but until then every time we boot it up to make changes, it’s different, right? You destroy millions before you settle on that one. That kind of breaks people’s brains to think about, and it’s a weird way of working.
    Last edited by Scout___AUS; 12-06-2014 at 12:47 PM.

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    AUF Full Member - Dual Post-Millenium Man (2000+) krunt0xen's Avatar
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    I think procedural generation makes a lot of sense in the context of universe creation/expansion. If based in loose realism, most planetary bodies will be uninhabitable, desolate, and differentiated by chemical composition. Creating a formula to determine the %age of planetary bodies that harbour life wouldn't be too difficult. Determining a rough set of life form evolutionary likelihoods etc is doable.

    I would like to know if these guys have used the vast wealth of universe modelling software freely available, created for scientific use. Analysing those would certainly inform the creation of the system NMS will use very well.

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    Super Moderator AUF Full Member - The Post Whore of Babble-Ion (4000+) RayTraced's Avatar
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    I want this game so bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by krunt0xen View Post
    I think procedural generation makes a lot of sense in the context of universe creation/expansion. If based in loose realism, most planetary bodies will be uninhabitable, desolate, and differentiated by chemical composition. Creating a formula to determine the %age of planetary bodies that harbour life wouldn't be too difficult. Determining a rough set of life form evolutionary likelihoods etc is doable.

    I would like to know if these guys have used the vast wealth of universe modelling software freely available, created for scientific use. Analysing those would certainly inform the creation of the system NMS will use very well.

    They seem to be looking at those kinds of things. Not simulation (a good thing imo) but at least grounded in our understanding and experiences of how things are. Clouds aren't just there because of a random chance its because the planet is the right distance from a star to have liquid water, and to give off oxygen, and the planet is the right size to hang onto an atmosphere via gravity. The other thing I've heard them say is mountains are formed by the 'rules of erosion'

    Whether that is what they HAVE done or its what they WANT to acheive is not clear

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    I hope it pans out to be a great game what ever the end form maybe

    Looking forward to watching this one develope


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    AUF Full Member - Dual Post-Millenium Man (2000+) krunt0xen's Avatar
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    From the E3 floor, another interview with Sean Murray from Hello Games. This one is a bit more in depth & answers some of the questions already asked here.


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    I want this game so bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by krunt0xen View Post
    From the E3 floor, another interview with Sean Murray from Hello Games. This one is a bit more in depth & answers some of the questions already asked here.

    Yeah I watched that last night, actually all of the interview vids the Playstation channel posted last night were pretty good, especially the MKX one with Ed Boon and the Driveclub one with Rushy.

    Off topic here, but I think we need a YouTube channels thread where we can recommend good YouTube channels to each other. There's lots of good stuff out there.


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    AUF Full Member - Middle Distance Man (1500+) Fluxburner's Avatar
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    I really like the concept, and being able to explore untouched planets etc is very neat.
    Although I'm not so sure about the texture overlays in those looping screeners, is that "space" the finished product?
    It just seems the colours are too washed out for the true interpretation of space and flying around in that space?

    Coming from Eve that in my ideal of what space looks like, has nailed the spacial enviroment of space, this however seems to me to not have hit the ideal of what space should actually look like when your flying around the universe.
    From the preview clips it's like your flying through different gaseous nebula's all the time?

    I expect my space to look more like this otherwise the immersion is ruined for me.


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    Default No Man's Sky

    Edit: Deleted 4 Double posting weirdness.
    Last edited by Fluxburner; 15-06-2014 at 05:55 PM.

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    AUF Full Member - Almost To The Point Of No Return (9000+) Kacoul-'s Avatar
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    Have you seen the art style and what the surface of planets look like? I don't think they are going for realistic.
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    AUF Full Member - Atttttennnnhutt! (5500+) Stonemull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluxburner View Post
    I really like the concept, and being able to explore untouched planets etc is very neat.
    Although I'm not so sure about the texture overlays in those looping screeners, is that "space" the finished product?
    It just seems the colours are too washed out for the true interpretation of space and flying around in that space?

    Coming from Eve that in my ideal of what space looks like, has nailed the spacial enviroment of space, this however seems to me to not have hit the ideal of what space should actually look like when your flying around the universe.
    From the preview clips it's like your flying through different gaseous nebula's all the time?

    I expect my space to look more like this otherwise the immersion is ruined for me.

    its pretty but sure as hell ain't what you see when you look up at night.



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    AUF Full Member - Middle Distance Man (1500+) Fluxburner's Avatar
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    I'm talking about actually flying through different solar systems in actual deep space which when magnified look like this as this is a real image from a ESO telescope all your in a space ship in space not looking at it from light years away on planet earth.If your were flying through the Milky Way rather than looking at it from earth you'd be viewing a completely different spacescape.
    Whatever the style , imo washed out clour backgrounds on a flying space ships space game doesn't do it for me personally.I like immersion effect within a game myself , in this gaming age the background is everything to me, call me fussy but yeah we'll see what the finished product brings.But being an Eve player I guess the bar is set in my mind with what flying through space should resemble.
    Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to bag this game out at all before it's released as that would be ignorant I'm just mentioning my point of view on space sims and space ships etc.
    Last edited by Fluxburner; 15-06-2014 at 06:13 PM.

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    The concept is interesting. Hopefully the game will be even more so, noting what has been said. Be interesting to see more vids once they are out.

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    AUF Full Member - Atttttennnnhutt! (5500+) Stonemull's Avatar
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    heh, we are smack in the middle of the milky way now flux.
    flying through it .. its going to look much like it does now.
    to see a big cloudy colorful nebula then you need to be looking at it from some dozens of light ways away, then their will be much less stars, as only other galaxys would be visible, like now but with the milky way stars removed, the vast majority.
    not arguing, just never really thought about what deep space would truly look like before. somewhat more boring than our own 'within galaxy' view I guess unless you had a seriously cool nebula to look at, a near view of a galaxy must look awesome too.

    game looks .. interesting, a virtual tourism type game would be an awesome project for morpheus.
    I reckon some other company will snap them up to use the tech in game though. I can't see 4 guys making something truly PS4 worthy no matter how clever they are.



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    AUF Leader AStiffBreeze's Avatar
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    Most of the images put out by NASA and similar agencies aren't 'true' colour, they're actually nothing like how our eyes would physically perceive those scenes. The pretty colours are just put there as a post-process to help us distinguish the different information captured in the picture (and also to look pretty, which is still important from a funding perspective).


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    AUF Full Member - Atttttennnnhutt! (5500+) Stonemull's Avatar
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    exactly, oo rf stuff, lets be blue today, xray .. people like the purty pink.

    all the crab nebula..

    Attachment 1880

    the green/orange ones are actually true colour.
    still purty.



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    Is it weird that the thing I'm mostly looking forward to is just shooting the asteroids?

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    AUF Full Member - Atttttennnnhutt! (5500+) Stonemull's Avatar
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    that did look cool.

    asteroids was my favourite arcade game too.



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    AUF Full Member - GUN PRON PRONE (3000+) Scout___AUS's Avatar
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    New footage

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