European Cinematography

[kobeson]

No of course some films are suited to their aspect ratios and wouldn't look right if the opposite. The ones that are well shot in 1.33 wouldn't work in 2.35 either... the recent remasters of Kubrick's films were cropped to 16x9 and unusually look just as good as in their OAR (orig asp ratio) which was 1.66.1 I think. European films commonly were in 1.66, whereas American were commonly 1.85 or 2.35 but for eg. Ben Hur was something like 2.90:1 or thereabouts... verrry wide...

2.35:1 isn't 16x9 1.78:1 is true widescreen for TV's (16x9 and 1080p), 2.35 is much wider and has black bars at top and bottom.

There's plenty of Japanese films in widescreen, Kurosawa's first was Red Beard I think, and that one of the better shot films I have seen... but plenty of other Japanese filmmakers used widescreen tho... it's just that the best era in Japan was pre widescreen dominant era really.


Watching old films on Blu is incredible, The Seventh Seal & Repulsion & Wings of Desire looked absolutely stunning. Like u with White Ribbon, I loved seeing Wings on Blu for the initial viewing. Lots of images from that film have stuck with me, I really really enjoyed it...

2.35:1 is the more common ratio for Japan widescreen from what I've seen. Kurosawa was a master of wide and full frame compositions, and Ozu was a master of full frame also.

[Snickersma]

Thats all great Kobes but who the hell is Kunbrick??

[kobeson]

Some retarded iPhone auto correction lol

[MannequinScreams]

AHHH!!! I forgot!!!

Dr Strangelove was full frame!! And that wasnt half bad. Mein fuhrer, I can walk!!

[kobeson]

So do u not enjoy films if they aren't widescreen, in general??

Kubrick's filme were 1.66:1 mainly, so in between 1.33 and 16x9, but recently cropped to 1.85 I think... I haven't watched that Blu yet, had it for ages!

[MannequinScreams]

Its not that I dont enjoy them, it isntantly shows it's age. And I just havent gotten around to seeing more in the format.

[kobeson]

It's a shame u see them that way, a large portion of my collection would be 1.66 or 1.33, and I can honestly say I have never looked at a 4x3 film and had no interest because of the shape of the frame!

And do u dislike widescreen (2.35) with black bars at bottom and top? Or just left and right? For example; Fight Club, 2001, The Matrix, Wall-E, Dark Knight all have black bars top and bottom - do u prefer 16x9 in particular? Or any widescreen?

Did u enjoy Citizen Kane and The Third Man? If the film is well shot, to me The aspect ratio is irrelevant - just like with photography. Custom cropping in photography is appropriate sometimes, but not always. It all comes down to the composition. A well composed shot is a well composed shot!

I mean, do u only like photos in widescreen also? Cameras have always been squarer until recent years...

I would have thought the melodramatic acting or the black and White would have turne you off moreso than the aspect ratio!

I'm a little shocked to hear it actually, and it is a shame if it's a generational thing. You have been brought up on widescreen TV's I guess, that might explain it. Having lived through pan and scan eras on VHS has made me appreciate composition in all aspect ratios. So many films on TV or VHS back in the 80's and early 90's were so badly handled I guess it made me realise how composition is so important and can be easily ruined.

Well I will understand now y u don't listen to all my recomendations!

[MannequinScreams]

I dont even know how it got to this

Letterboxing doesnt bother me. My collection would be about 50/50 of letterbox and 16:9

The original point I was trying to make I think was that I'd like to see more B&W films in widescreen, like The Elephant Man.
I completely understand the limitations that CK, TTM and M had at the time. And before that audio wasnt an option. After these new features came into play, there were those that werent ready to adopt (note I didnt say adapt ).

The era of HD is just now giving cinema the much needed quality it's longed for. Sin City sparked my desire for how good black and white can look.

And to further show I dont hate fullframe. I love everything about Twin Peaks. And The Simpsons, which was in fullframe for 19 years before they switched.

[kobeson]

Yeah fair enough, it's just if you say you aren't a fan of it what do the rest who don't even like films in b&w or with subtitles think! :S

it's just a surprise to me I guess...

An it's not a lack of quality of film stock, Seventh Seal is as close to perfection in HD as I have seen, the detail is incredible!

I will go through my top 50(ish) tomorrow and tell u which are widescreen, too hard on the iPhone - but there are plenty of great films that fit that mould

[MannequinScreams]

Just like music, movies have you tickle you just the right way. There's gotta be something to draw me in. CK had the massive historical significance and it kept me in with the superb job by Welles. The Third Man was a scene I saw of Orson staring at the detective from a doorway.
If I havent seen a 4:3 film it's probably because what I looked up about it didnt strike me. It's not a definitely that I will never see them, cant tell you how many times I looked up Kitano before actually seeing Dolls lol
Then something like The Seventh Seal I've had other things I'd rather buy, no less interest though.
And it's this state of mind that's best going into the film. Little expectation can give the greatest reward.


Is your top 50(ish) in rough order of best to not-as-good-as-best? I see 8 1/2 at the top and I knows thats yours favourites.

[kobeson]

That list was pretty tight, I cut out quite a few, all of them are great IMO. 8 1/2 is just one of the most enjoyable films to rewatch, it has the perfect blend of everything I like, and it is just so cool! Mastrioanni is irresistable, it is the sum of Fellini's life. And it is widescreen b&w with some stunning imagery

These are all widescreen:

1 8 ½ (b&w)
7 The Good, the Bad & the Ugly
8 Fanny and Alexander
9 The 400 Blows (b&w)
11 L'Avventura (b&w)
14 The Sacrifice
15 Once Upon a Time in the West
19 The Discreet Charm of the Burgoise
20 Solaris
23 Le Samourai
27 Army of Shadows
28 Belle De Jour
29 Wings of Desire (b&w)
32 The Spirit of the Beehive
36 That Obscure Object of Desire
38 Le Cercle Rouge
41 The White Ribbon (b&w)
42 Le Mepris
44 Cries & Whispers
46 L'Eclisse (b&w)
47 Insomnia
48 Amarcord
50 Ali:Fear Eats the Soul
52 Shoot the Piano Player (b&w)
53 The Leopard
55 Playtime
56 Cache
57 Le Enfant


Also Repulsion which isn't on my top 50 list, but made one hell of a Blu-Ray from Criterion is widescreen b&w...

[MannequinScreams]

Whats the Le Enfant you're talking about? Is that the one where a guy sells his child and tries to get it back? I havent seen it but once read about it.

Some great movies in that list you made, and Im very thankful for the effort!
It's a coincedence that drops further doubt, Cries and Whispers is something that I'll probably like. Might be a good place to start with Bergman, that and Seventh Seal. Might just get the UK blu of it.

[kobeson]

Yeah it is, L'enfant actually, I wrote it wrong. Dardenne brothers have made some brilliant films...

Crries and Whispers turned my missus off Bergman as it was her first attempt, it is probably not the best one to start on, but give it a go if you're keen. It's very dramatic and metaphoric, not a perfect representation of his work - Fanny and Alexander is a must see, is in colour and widescreen, I would look for the extended cut of that if possible. Bergman made a lot of stuff for TV and some were released as long films - F&E is very long but completely unforgettable.

I think Seventh Seal is a great starting point for his work.

[MannequinScreams]

Fanny and Alexander is like over 300mins long!! How could anyone see that in one sitting

[kobeson]

I never said one sitting, it was chaptered into 4 I think - like I said, it was made for TV. Most of his later stuff was made for TV, some were cut into feature length, and some were split up into chapters like a TV mini-series. But F&E feels like a film, not a TV show.

[MannequinScreams]

Grabbed Spirit of the Beehive off eBay. Some of those cats want a tonne for Criterion releases. Still got it cheaper than ama.com

[kobeson]

How much did you pay?

Not to bring it up again, but you should check the 4x3 photography in Passion of Joan of Arc - you should see that film anyway one day, an incredible film.

[MannequinScreams]

Just under 40 after postage.

Do you only have Passion' on dvd? Not on blu yet?
That was a silent yeah and a Dreyer?
I've looked it before, could do it again but wanna see if I remember correctly

Wings' doesnt quite fill up the widescreen does it? It has a bit of space on the sides?

[kobeson]

I used to always have to pay about $45 for Criterion DVDs incl postage, and up until recently I could get their Blu's for about $25-$30 but for some reason amazon have put their prices up heaps of late... I had about 3-4 I wanted to buy, but am waiting now...

Yeah, DVD of Passion. Yeah, silent Dreyer. Great movie, his silents were pretty good apparently, I have only seen this and Vampyr.

No Wings was right to the edges I thought?!? Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it was 1.78:1 which is 16x9...

[MannequinScreams]

What do you think of Charlie Chaplin? Was he the British Orson Welles of his day?
Im interested in City Lights and looks pretty good on blu. And it's 4:3

[kobeson]

Chaplin was American wasn't he?!? His films were anyway...

Got a link to City Lights Blu review?

Nothing like Welles' output, light hearted clever comedy dramas, mainly all silent. His films are brilliant. I've only seen half a dozen or so; The Kid, City Lights and Modern Times my faves. Criterion are rumoured to have rights to his films and hopefully a Blu set could come out!

Also check out Keaton's films, both were brilliant filmmakers... I have the Masters of Cinema Keaton box and The General, incredible stuff! The General is required viewing...

Chaplin was born within 1 week of Hitler apparently, and even had matching moustaches!!

[MannequinScreams]

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/citylights.htm

Gonna have a sleep so I'll get back to ya on the rest of your post

[MannequinScreams]

See I always thought of Chaplin as just some dumb slapstick actor. Never knew he was even a filmmaker!!

Silent films are strange to watch. Silence always is used to give an uneasy feeling and tension and with silents it would be right through hahaha
How long is The General? I saw a bit of it on youtube and I'd watch it all if it wasnt too long. I'd have to play some music so I wouldnt go mental

Typing that and looking at more vids, City Lights was silent but had a soundtrack.

Its weird how history happens like that with Chaplin and Hitler.

[kobeson]

Silent films all have a soundtrack, u aren't sitting there hearing crickets - some have great scores... I have never watched a silent film that had no score, I dunno which clips u saw to give u that impression... Silent just means with no spoken dialogue - they used to have live scores theatrically and DVDs often have multiple soundtracks from various composers... M was Lang's first 'talkie', which still felt like a silent in parts...

Yeah Chaplin and Keaton both wrote, directed and starred in their work, and they I'd their own stunts - Keaton shone with the stuntwork, he was incredible... whereas Chaplin had the more touching films...

You should see The General it is incredible...

There are better silent films out there IMO, and I noticed Battleship Potemkin has a review at beaver - I also wanna buy Sunrise but gotta stop double dipping :S but plenty of good
silents if u enjoy ur first viewing - City Lights?

[themonkeysmiles]

If you dont like the silence Otis you can always play a piano whilst watching...

[MannequinScreams]

Where would Inglourious Basterds be best suited? This thread or The Film Thread?

I saw it again on blu just now and I still notice tidbits. It's a special film when Im left wondering about the characters past and future.

Smonkey I tried playing the piano whilst watching once... She called the cops on me. I still get mail from her lawyer along the jist of "Get your piano off my clients front lawn, it's encouraging the neighbourhood cats to walk on the keys at night. And she can tolerate their rendition of 'Felines' only so many times".

[MannequinScreams]

Spirit of the Beehive arrived today. Those Criterion packaging are damn nice.

A region-free blu-ray player is what I now need Heck, any kind of player that's region-free so I can watch it in my room.

Going to watch it on the morrow.

[kobeson]

Oh yeah, your first one! I think The Seventh Seal was my first one, way back in about 03 I think! Wait till you see some of the gatefold packaging and the bigger booklets!
Definitely something you can collect, and it becomes addictive! I have bought a couple hundred I think, and have other versions of a lot of their catalogue... I love the spine numbers, looks cool when you get a few consecutive

But every inch of them is worth the $$, no other DVD or Blu-Ray company somes close... 10/10 for everything from menus, extras, transfers, audio options, booklet and the artwork is incredible on most of them - would love to buy some of their posters...

PS - go the Kogan for a 7 day trial I'd suggest, if you'r not happy remember gattiweb

[MannequinScreams]

Im seriously thinking about making a bid for one of the gattiweb players on ebay. Would it get to me in one peice?

[kobeson]

You might be better off buying one brand new, as you get a 7-day cool off period.

Unless you can get one cheap enough on ebay I guess...