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Thread: European Cinematography

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    Default European Cinematography

    In passage of Oriental Celluloid, I've made this thread to divide up all the various exciting forms of cinema. As they can be all vastly different to one another. And this way if you're searching for something different to your usual Spielberg, this is the place to go.
    My opening recommendations may be limited, fear not! Kobeson is the resident expert in this field.
    BEWARE, ye be warned of subtitles.
    Europe is the continent home of many unique cultures. Films is the next best way of escapism to traveling there on your very merry way.

    To begin I'll sort by country.

    France
    Le mépris (1963) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057345/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7P7ijpAPY
    Caché (2005) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387898/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNLkR...eature=related
    Belle de jour (1967) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061395/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJXLCYZMGQ8

    Germany
    The Lives of Others (2006) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_iLOp6IhM
    Sophie Scholl: The Final Days (2005) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0426578/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM5A4ETW_Io
    Downfall (2004) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp1RXmM1-60
    Wings of Desire (1987) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093191/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSzkhhrZH6Y
    Run Lola Run (1998) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130827/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta1Sn6MtC9w
    The Baader Meinhof Complex (2008) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765432/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IVKAAsqcrI
    The Counterfeiters (2007) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0813547/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwr9nCurEEQ

    Spain
    Pan's Labyrinth (2006) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0457430/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYiSlkvRuw

    Sweden
    Let The Right One In (2008) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1139797/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJUgsZ56vQ

    Russia
    Russian Ark (2002) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318034/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J--TDEHizVA


    Now all of those films are nothing like you'll find in America. Sometihng like Russian Ark was done in only one long 90min take, not a lot of story or subtance, but for pure cinematic power it's something that deserves to be seen.
    Most wont be for everyone, but if your willing, then there are some real gems.

    Like Downfall for example. The youtube vids as funny as they can be, doesnt do it justice. It is a very good film detailing Hitler's last days. And the conviction Bruno Ganz gives the hated man is admirable. Turn the picture black and white and add some heavy grain and you'd have to look twice to know it wasnt stock footage.





    Last edited by MannequinScreams; 01-04-2010 at 08:55 AM.

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    Top 50(ish):

    1 8 ½
    2 Bicycle Thieves
    3 Wild Strawberries
    4 Ordet
    5 Stalker
    6 The Seventh Seal
    7 The Good, the Bad & the Ugly
    8 Fanny and Alexander
    9 The 400 Blows
    10 Sunrise
    11 L'Avventura
    12 Winter Light
    13 M
    14 The Sacrifice
    15 Once Upon a Time in the West
    16 Persona
    17 Grand Illusion
    18 The Passion of Joan of Arc
    19 The Discreet Charm of the Burgoise
    20 Solaris
    21 The Rules of the Game
    22 Umberto D.
    23 Le Samourai
    24 A Man Escaped
    25 The Diary of a Country Priest
    26 The Exterminating Angel
    27 Army of Shadows
    28 Belle De Jour
    29 Wings of Desire
    30 The Blood of a Poet
    31 Viridiana
    32 The Spirit of the Beehive
    33 The Silence
    34 Nights of Cabiria
    35 Through a Glass Darkly
    36 That Obscure Object of Desire
    37 Pickpocket
    38 Le Cercle Rouge
    39 The Virgin Spring
    40 Mon Oncle
    41 The White Ribbon
    42 Le Mepris
    43 Bob le Flambeur
    44 Cries & Whispers
    45 Breathless
    46 L'Eclisse
    47 Insomnia
    48 Amarcord
    49 Orpheus
    50 Ali:Fear Eats the Soul
    51 Metropolis
    52 Shoot the Piano Player
    53 The Leopard
    54 Band of Outsiders
    55 Playtime
    56 Cache
    57 Le Enfant
    58 Rififi
    Last edited by kobeson; 01-04-2010 at 10:04 AM.
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    Where will "BMX Bandit" fit in?

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    The film thread will be renamed to something like Americana filmerama.

    BMX Bandits will find it's home there.

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    don't call it american if aus films are included tho0 - make it popular film talk or sumthin...

    I made a top 50(ish) list in my post above, and here are some others I recommend that didn’t make the list!

    France
    A Very Long Engagement
    Amelie
    Au Hasard Balthasar
    Au revoir les enfants
    The Battle of Algiers
    Beauty and the Beast
    The Blood of a Poet
    The City of Lost Children
    Delicatessen
    The Elevator to the Gallows
    La Femme Nikita
    General Idi Amin Dada (A Self Portrait)
    La Haine
    Hiroshima Mon Amour
    La Jetée
    Jules and Jim
    Last Year at Marienbad
    M. Hulot's Holiday
    Mesrine: Part 1 and Part 2
    Mouchette
    Night and Fog
    Rosetta
    The Rules of the Game
    Sans Soleil
    Shoot the Piano Player
    The Testament of Orpheus
    Three Colours Blue
    Three Colours Red
    Three Colours White
    Trafic
    Wages of Fear

    Germany
    Das Boot
    Downfall
    Faust
    Heaven
    Lola
    The Marriage of Maria Braun
    Nosferatu
    Pandora's Box
    Run Lola Run
    Tin Drum, The
    Vampyr
    Veronika Voss

    Ireland
    In the Name of the Father

    Italy
    A Fistful of Dollars
    A Fistful of Dynamite
    Amarcord
    For a Few Dollars More
    The Gospel According to St. Matthew
    Juliet of the Spirits
    Life is Beautiful
    Nights of Cabiria
    La Notte
    Opera
    La Strada
    Suspiria
    Umberto D.

    Poland
    A Generation
    Ashes and Diamonds
    The Double Life of Veronique
    Kanal
    Knife in the Water
    The Pianist

    Russia/Soviet Union
    Come and See
    Dersu Uzala
    Ivan's Childhood
    Mirror

    Spain
    L' Âge d'or
    Amores Perros
    Un Chien Andalou
    Cronos
    The Devil's Backbone
    Pan's Labyrinth
    The Sea Inside

    Sweden
    Autumn Sonata

    United Kingdom
    Bad Timing
    Black Narcissus
    Brazil
    Children of Men
    Death at a Funeral
    The Fallen Idol
    Gandhi
    If…
    Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
    Match Point
    Mona Lisa
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail
    Monty Python's The Life of Brian
    Monty Python's the Meaning of Life
    Naked
    Notes on a Scandal
    Peeping Tom
    The Red Shoes
    Repulsion
    Shaun of the Dead
    Snatch
    The Third Man
    This is Spinal Tap
    Trainspotting
    Withnail and I
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    Australia is now an American state like Alaska and Hawaii

    And how often are Aussie films talked about?

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    This thread so far:

    Aussie films 1
    American films 0



    My point is, what if a UK film is seen, does that mean it has to be talked about in this thread?

    Should categorize them by English language and foreign language...

    PS - I added my list, will take a month to get all the links tho :S
    Last edited by kobeson; 31-03-2010 at 03:10 PM.
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    Didnt know bmx bandits was Aussie hahaha thought it was from that skeg generation of the 80s!

    Well you and me know that it's bloody hard just keeping Asia seperate half of the time

    Perhaps simply call the other thread "The General Film Thread"?

    That list is bloody impressive Kobes!!! I'll start going through them all tomorrow looking for anything that sparks some interest that you havent mentioned before.

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    Haha classic film but yeah thats what I meant by pop films...
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    British films arent frequently seen by anyone so we'll deal with it case by case hahaha

    I need a title for the main thread so this can go live!!!!

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    Whats The Spirit of the Beehive like?
    I came across it yesterday and never got around to seeing a trailer for it, and now cant seem to find one. Is it kinda like Pan's Labyrinth?
    Would I like it? Criterion had the rights to it so it must be pretty good.

    This is how I thought the thread would kick start

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    I should make a top 20 or even 50 out of thar list...

    Spirit is a beautiful film, not as much a fantasy film in the vein of Pan's but its a great film thru the eyes of a kid- check it out...
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    Can only get 'Spirit in every region bar 4. Looks like it will be my first Criterion.
    Dont wanna do it often because I gotta sit in another room with a multi-region DVD player.

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    Its ridiculous that the PS3 isnt region free for DVD's when most/all Blu-Ray players are...

    But once you get ur first Criterion u will be hooked, from the transfer to the artwork, right down to the quality of the booklets, nothing else comes close...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kobeson View Post
    Its ridiculous that the PS3 isnt region free for DVD's when most/all Blu-Ray players are...

    But once you get ur first Criterion u will be hooked, from the transfer to the artwork, right down to the quality of the booklets, nothing else comes close...
    Getting harder not to make the jump for the Kogan!!

    Are any of Bergman's greats in cinemascope/widescreen?
    My draw to White Ribbon (which arrived today on blu!! ) is that the imagery looks great in 16:9.

    Looked at your top 50 and am happy to know I've seen about 5 of them. Cant believe I missed M when I was listing Germany.

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    Kobes, i actually cannot believe your DVD collection.
    If those are all foreign, I cant imagine all the English speaking ones you have.

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    He also has a deep love for Asia. His, Snickers' and YN's collection would consist of anything and everything that's worth seeing.

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    Most of Bergman's films are in fullframe - like I said to you I think, some of the images he and Sven Nykvist (sp?) created are some of the best I have ever seen.
    Watch Persona and you will see how good a 4x3 image can be composed - I still am not convinced widescreen compositions are better.

    His later stuff was in 1.85:1 ratio, only 1 or 2 of them are among his best works - Fanny and Alexander is one of them, an amazing film... you would love it I reckon actually...
    Most of his work from the 50's, 60's were in fullframe, but a few were in 1.66:1 I think.


    Like I said, try the Kogan by all means, but keep in mind they have a 7 (or 14 can't recall) day cool off period which you will possibly wanna make use of. I watched one Blu-Ray and it pixelated every 5 mins or so, and gradually got worse. The disc played fine in my PS3 though. But the region free feature is good, and the PQ was quite good - not quite as good as the PS3 which is not quite as crisp as my Panny BD80.


    @wij - that list is just the European films I have which I recommend. I have about 1700 DVD's and Blu-Rays, and about 50% of my collection is English language I think, the rest are a mix of the rest of the world
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    Something like 2001 wouldn't have been so breath-taking in fullframe. For vast shots it needs to be in widescreen. And isnt good photography about not having the focus in the centre?

    If there's one thing I want to accomplish with this thread is that we gotta get some people keen to see M.
    For that I know I have not choice about it's 4:3 frame because it was all they had hahaha
    But it did add to the constricted immediacy of catching the guy.

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    Same rules apply to square frames - rule or 3rds is even more apparent. Cameras have always had squarer frames. I agree about 2001, but 4x3 compositions are more perfect if done right. Its a different thing really, like u mentioned vastness in widescreen. It is easier to make things look good in wide scope, but as with M some fantastic images can be achieved with square frames.

    How many films shot in 4x3 have you seen? Cinematography is more atmospheric and artistic in full frame imo, whereas As I said anything looks good in widescreen, much easier to achieve...
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    If there's a lot of tight spaces and in door scenes then 4:3 would achieve the right atmosphere, especially when there's a heated element to it. Claustrophobia kicks in. With widescreen it provokes loneliness if theres a lot on screen but only one person.

    4:3 titles-
    M
    The Third Man
    Citizen Cane
    Ordet

    As you can see, nothing new-ish

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    Quote Originally Posted by kobeson View Post

    @wij - that list is just the European films I have which I recommend. I have about 1700 DVD's and Blu-Rays, and about 50% of my collection is English language I think, the rest are a mix of the rest of the world

    ummmm, whoa.

    that is probably the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.
    alphabetically ordered i presume

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    Nah it couldnt be with all the Criterions he has. He'd have them ordered by the spine numbers.

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    Why ridiculous? Size of collection, or amount of non-english?

    Otis, I really like it when Van Sant shot Elephant in 1.33 ratio, and it looked better than the cropped version.
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    I hadnt seen it but Im sure it would look better. It wasnt the directors intended vision.

    I figured out why our preferences are on each end. My film love really got going when I bought my LCD and you've been watching films on presumably a CRT for over a decade.

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    The White Ribbon had me transfixed much in the same way that I presume Ordet did for you. I hope to see these unknown actors in more films. If only America could get that much young talent for child actors.


    Also quite clever that there's two musical people in it to introduce some music to an otherwise muted film.

    Film: 5/5 Picture: 5/5 Sound: 5/5

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    Quote Originally Posted by OtisBDriftwood View Post
    I hadnt seen it but Im sure it would look better. It wasnt the directors intended vision.

    I figured out why our preferences are on each end. My film love really got going when I bought my LCD and you've been watching films on presumably a CRT for over a decade.
    What do u mean wasn't the intended vision? Cropped? Have u only seen the cropped version?

    No I got my first widescreen TV back in 2002 which is around when I began getting into world cinema. I do love widescreen cinematography but IMO a well composed full frame image is more artistcally pleasing like I said. I don't prefer either, but I appreciate full frame composition more.

    TV looks much better in widescreen.

    Quote Originally Posted by OtisBDriftwood View Post
    The White Ribbon had me transfixed much in the same way that I presume Ordet did for you. I hope to see these unknown actors in more films. If only America could get that much young talent for child actors.


    Also quite clever that there's two musical people in it to introduce some music to an otherwise muted film.

    Film: 5/5 Picture: 5/5 Sound: 5/5
    Glad u liked it, haven't got around to watch my Blu yet. Fantastic acting I agree. And the film felt like a 2hr homage to Bergman, so u should have an idea what his films are like to watch.
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    I havent seen Elephant. What I meant was that a widescreen version would have a lot of stuff in it that Gus wouldnt want the viewer seeing. Not as drastic as the following example though; some movies that are stretched beyond the directors intended scale sometimes shows things like boom mics lol

    Persona trailer had everything concentrated to the centre with not a lot at in the surroundings. Bergman knew what he wanted to you to look at.

    Well thats my attempt at film analysis

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    Nah the widescreen crop would show less - a lot of films are shot full frame (open matte) and then cropped for widescreen. Most wide widescreen films are shot with anamorphi lenses tho, but Elephant was a crop, not opening up the frame.

    but yeah sometimes they are poorly cropped and do show boom mics etc. Makes u wonder how they are passed tho...

    I don't think I've seen a better looking film than Citizen Kane, regardless of aspect ratio. And it's always the rule of thirds that makes a good image moreso. Citizen Kane is rich with visual metaphor, you really can enjoy that film without dialogue.

    Films like Leone's spaghetti westerns are among my favourite widescreen films. And there are plenty of Japanese films in both 1.33 and 2.35 that are among the best visuals I've seen also.

    Stupid iPhone, have to keep editing my posts and keep editing out sentences accidentally!
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    So 1.33 is short for 1.33:1 which is 4:3 and 2.35 is 2.35:1 so 16:9?

    I've only seen that Yojimbo is widescreen from older Japan. Havent seen anything else that isnt 1.33
    But they've always been a bit behind havent they?

    Great thing about White Ribbon is that I saw it on blu the first time so the B&W was nice and crisp. It's a shame all of the old films I gotta see will be on dvd for quite some time.

    You could watch Citizen Kane without dialogue... but you'd miss out on Orson's dreamy voice!!

    Kwaidan for instance couldnt have been 1.33 (still got two stories to go! Woman of the snow still runs through my mind)

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